tv The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell MSNBC May 14, 2014 10:00pm-11:01pm PDT
so bill clinton got to take a crack at carl rogue's medical diagnosis of hillary clinton today. you have been asking about lawrence. we have a special update tonight. stay tuned for that. but first, it's bill versus karl. >> former secretary of state hillary clinton is speaking in washington. maybe she will have something to say dr. rove's 2016 diagnosis. >> i didn't say she had brain damage. she had a serious health episode. >> we know that the health is fair game. >> however, this -- >> maybe karl rove isn't the best messenger. >> i didn't say she had brain damage. >> now you are going to say she had brain damage. >> i never used the phrase. she had a serious health episode. >> they first said she was
faking the health issue. >> fir taste said she faked her concussion. >> she didn't want to testify about benghazi. >> now they say she is auditioning for "the walking dead." >> so inconsistent to be laughable. >> there is no evidence that karl rove knew it would become public. >> nothing was reported. >> clearly reversing. >> rove is nasty. is he nasty stupid? or nasty smart? >> this was karl rove running headlong into a brick wall. >> let him off the hook. the last time he did this was five, six minutes ago. >> the clintons versus karl rove. >> for attacking hillary clinton's health. >> where is he coming from? >> what is up with that? >> i don't know. good evening. i'm in for lawrence o'donnell. dr. rove isn't the only one asking questions at a forum today, bill clinton nearly fell off his chair laughing when asked about rove's recent diagnosis of hillary clinton.
>> karl rove asked yesterday, raised the question, over the weekend, i guess about whether hillary clinton is well enough to run for president in 2016. whether that she had suffered a brain injury. dr. rove wants to know. as much as we do. whether that is true. whether it will affect her decision making. >> well, first of all i got to give him credit. he did, that embodies that old saying that consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds. first they said she faked her concussion. and now they say she is auditioning for a part on "the walking dead." i mean, whatever it takes. there its nothing to it. it, it -- i didn't even, i was sort of dumbfounded. they say she has really got brain damage. if she does, i must been really tough shape.
she is still quicker than i am. >> the president mentioned "the walking dead" we'll have more on a zombie story. this drama is to night a range of democrats. nancy pelosi said this afternoon that rove's desperation reflects a wider republican panic. >> i think that hillary's strength, her popularity, the prestige she enjoys has driven the republicans to their wits end. that's what i think. i think what he said is -- is just -- only makes her stronger. >> then karl rove got chopped up on "the daily show." >> clearly, he thought cranium-gate was going to be a slam dunk talking point. turns out not really. >> how did this comment come up suggesting that hillary clinton may suffer from brain damage? where did that come from? >> no, no, no. wait a minute. no. no. i didn't say she had brain damage. >> i never said brain damage!
all i said, i nearly noted in passing that sunny was wearing traumatic brain injury eyewear. >> unanswered questions. attempted cover-up. my god, it's brainghazi! >> if rove resented the grilling from fox's bill hemmer yesterday it got tougher tonight when papa bear himself said rove's inquiry was unimportant. >> is this important? no, it's not. its it amusing. somewhat. a cat fight between a political big shot like rove and most powerful woman in the country mrs. clinton. always great theater. but republicans should lay off hillary clinton for the moment. >> it is a little late for that of course. when you insinuate without evidence that public servant and potential presidential candidate is mentally incompetent. the gloves are definitely off. people ask why this kind of smear should get any press at all. why put it on tv right now. but i think there is a flip side here.
probably good news. not just for hillary clinton but politics in general. the news is that smears don't work as well. in our new media environment. smears are an old trick and tend to work on an old model of, whispering, innuendo and targeting information. think of targeted phone calls in north carolina, spreading a lie that john mccain had an illegitimate black child or fliers on wind shields, making suggestion as but ann richard's sexuality, or swift boating, the campaign that lied about john kerry's war record. >> he's lying about his record. >> i know john kerry is lying about his first purple heart. i treated him for the injury. >> john kerry lied about his bronze star. i know. i was there. i saw what happened. >> swift boat veterans for truth is response pull. >> you saw liars accusing some one else of lying. an effort that helped re-elect president bush. do you remember him ever defending it. he never had to. just ten years ago those
targeted messages and independent efforts often flew below the radar. today it is dissected or debunked within one 24 hour news cycle. that may mean drama, hype, tweets. yes, more punditry. and it can mean more accountability. that's why i think even fox news made karl rove explain himself and why republicans are openly asking whether they want to own the downside of rove's dirty playbook out in the open. that's why bill o'reilly, counseling the gop. don't start out your battle for the presidency like this. it's why bite middle of this week, it seems like if any one here needs a doctor, it's karl rove. a warrior who went on offense and found himself bloodied in the ring. joining me now is, dana milbank, msnbc analyst, and the host of msnbc's show.
steve, what do you think of the theory? >> we will see. my thought on this one is, this didn't work because this was so like spectacularly and laughably. i think the attacks on hillary have begun. seeing that with benghazi. this compared to what is to come. assuming she does run for president. this is nothing. of what it reflects. and what you get to play out. what nancy pelosi is saying. and, karl rove and, republicans are responding to hillary clinton being very popular. they're responding to that. that's true. what they're really responding to is the realization of how much they've contributed to that popularity. because the republicans succeed en in the country, hillary clinton to the 2008 presidential campaign one of most polarizing political figures in the country. did that by attacking her every single day, nonstop, she and her husband were two faces. the moment that barack obama sup planted them as standard bearer of the party.
the way of thinking, the strategy changed. barack obama became the bad democrat. source of daily, daily republican attacks. bill and hillary clinton for five years have been the quote, unquote, good democrats. in the narrative. they impeached bill clinton, great bipartisan guy, got along with him, if barack obama could learn. talked about hillary clinton states woman at the state department. if she won in 2008. barack obama. how many times did you hear this from republicans in the last, five, sick years. the result, she has poll numbers she hand her husband never had from 1992 to 2007. early '08. republicans are realizing that. you are going to start seeing day-to-day attacks. i don't think this one takes off. a lot more to come. let's see if they do. >> dana, while steve is right and knows his numbers, secretaries of state historically tend to have much higher ratings than anyone else in the cabinet. they don't go off to the conventions. they're less political.
hillary, not a normal secretary of state. maybe higher numbers reflect growth. factor that in and give us your thoughts on what we are learning tonight. >> it's terrific what karl rove has done. only in america can a guy who never got a college degree become one of the nation's leading authorities on neurology. i think dr. pelosi's diagnosis is closer to the fact. they do see this behemoth, this unstoppable force on the democratic side. where all of their perspective are locked, between, like seven points and 13 points in the poll. they're throwing at her what they can. think what happened. this is one thing they have thrown at her this week. blaming her at the same time for, the kidnappers in nigeria. lynn cheney is saying she and the clintons are generally behind getting monica lewinsky story out. again now. all benghazi all the time.
it seems like a tactical error if anything. i think that's why the recoil on the right, saying, guys, keep your pile drive for a little while here. and the other thing we are seeing different. you've mentioned the swift boat. the real difference here is i think democrats said "no that is preposterous, we car not going to answer that." they waited too long. you are seeing this, uproar right now. and people saying, no, carl, we're not going to tolerate this. we are going to get right back in your face and say you are the crazy one. >> that's what jumped out to me. having worked on the kerry campaign. i do remember all the sort of frozen strategic concern. there was a different media environment. the idea that you can come in. slam this immediately is important. bill clinton also was right on message there, not only in saying, they have been all over the place, because first they called her a phony for this. but also, being ready new get into the ring. take a listen, steve. do you think this is their way
of inserting her age or physical capabilities into the 2016 debate. >> i don't know, but if it is, you can't be too upset about it. just the beginning. they will get better and better about it. and i'm still waiting for them to admit there was nothing to whitewater. it's just part of the deal. you can't -- when a question is asked, it has to be answered in a serious fashion. if it raises a serious issue, even in a ridiculous way. after that, you just have to trust the people and go on. get back to the business of -- of -- of what's really in the public interest. yeah, i mean. look he speaks from experience, obviously. the story of the clintons when they first came to power in 1992, was this was a democratic party in three elections wiped out. michael dukakis. didn't know how to respond to republican attacks. left things go unanswered.
bill clinton the guy who showed democrats this is how you respond. this is how you take a punch. i would never question the clintons in terms of having thick skin and knowing how to take a punch, knowing how to throw one back. you are seeing. seems to me. my reading of that. watching bill clinton there. having a lot of flashbacks now. to what life was like for him and his wife. in that period of the '90s. really the most of last decade. when there was a wide assumption in the political world there was a clinton restoration. put on hold when obama became president. it is back out there. the filter reverted to form. the filter is clintons are the enemy. put anything in the news. come up with a negative story about it. do they have ability to fight that. the question is do they have the will or desire for ten more years to be fighting back. >> this goes off to the politics. why people find politics fascinating. these are the rove faction and clinton faction that know each other intimately as warriors.
this is a layered battle. bill clinton was not seen as playing an a game as a surrogate in the closing days of the 2008 primary. here, a jovial, confident, bill clinton. do you feel that to some degree he thinks he could do a better job now? >> well, i think so. i think he had the pitch just right. i was there at the event to day. and he is correct. you do need to answer this forcefully. but you also have to be philosophical. the wonder is that we are not already hearing about again, the white house travel office and the rose law firm billing records. it is all going to come through again. in a way, been out there already. hillary clinton is inoculated in some ways. >> i hear you on that. thank you both. >> sure. >> thank you. >> coming up. if rand paul and marco rubio are serious about running for president. why are they saying serious things. >> next, why are three republican senators blocking
money to pay for bulletproof vests for police officers? plus, no joke, the pentagon has a plan of action just in case there is ever a zombie apocalypse. again, not a joke. real news. the reporter who broke that story will join us. avo: with expedia you always get the lowest price book any flight or hotel and if you find it for less we'll match it and give you fifty dollars back that's the expedia guarantee
we are going to have an update on lawrence o'donnell coming up for you tonight. first, why any one seriously planning to be a republican candidate for president must be unserious in order to succeed. when it's donut friday at the office i use my citi thankyou card to get two times the points at the coffee shop. which will help me get to miami...and they'll be stuck at the cube farm.
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it hasn't always been. i didn't have much patience for any one who denies that this challenge is real. we don't have time for a meeting of the flat earth society. >> seems like if you want to see a serious contender for the 2016 republican nomination you have to be unserious about a lot of things. potentially a member of the flattered society. one of the aspiring members, senator marco rubio, a report on climate changed listed miami as one of the most vulnerable cities. the junior senator was having none of it. how big a threat is climate change. some how there are actions that we could take today that would have an impact on what is happening in our climate. our climate is always changing. >> you do not think human activity, production of c 02 caused warming? >> i do not believe human activity is causing dramatic changes to our climate the way the scientists are portraying it.
that's what i do not. i do not believe the laws they propose we pass will do anything about it except it will destroy our economy. >> the climate is always changing. now that came from a man who, when asked how old he thought the earth was, answered, i'm not a scientist, man. yesterday, marco rubio tried to walk back unscientific statements on the climate. >> headlines notwithstanding, i have never disputed that climate is changing. i pointed out the climate to some extent is always changing never static. that's not the question before me as a policy maker. >> it's always changing. that's the take way. many experts say that they the question facing him. a factual fault line in the emerging gop field about voter fraud. senator rand paul drew praise including here on "the last word" when last month he acknowledged the fact that there is very little actual voter fraud and republicans have been overdoing the issue. >> dead people still do vote in some elections. there still is some fraud.
we should stop that. one way of doing that. republicans may have overemphasized this. i don't know. >> he made a similar pin the to "the new york times" saying, i think it is wrong for republicans to go too crazy on this issue. it is offending people. so far, so good. apparently there was push back, because paul went on conservative radio yesterday, made it sound like voter id is the most reasonable base ache -- basic approach. >> i don't really object to having some rules for how we vote. i show my driver's license. every time i volt in kentucky. i don't feel it is a great burden. funny it got reported that way. >> joining me is a contributor. and richard wolf, executive editor of msnbc.com. thank you to you both. >> richard, i focus on the facts. always an ideological litmus
test in both primary. a little bit of a new thing, a bad thing to have so much jockeying to declare untruths. >> let's not go too crazy here. is there a parallel between what they're saying to one audience and what they're saying to another. you know the only consistency here is that rand paul, we had this discussion the other day, he, he is giving people what he thinks they want to hear. telling david axelrod, not get too crazy. telling sean hannity, may not take the same position. that, well, of course, i do support voter id. people went crazy the other way. they're doing it pandering. inartfully. doing the walk back inartfully. democrats don't need a karl rove to question their sanity. they're doing it themselves. >> i also think one of the
problems they had all along. they had the autopsy. maybe rand paul read the autopsy. starting to moderate this language. they cannot moderate their language then attract young people and people of color that voter i.d. laws offend. so i think a lot of this is almost like when little kids play hide-and-seek. hide in the corner, everybody can see them. you have to pretend that they're hiding. it is almost like the gop thinks that american voters would buy their, moderated rhetoric instead of the policy platform. they're running on. which is anti-choice. really anti-women on many issues. they don't support equal pay for example. i think that moderating their language is not going to work. >> well you talk about the platform. i want to put up on the climate question. climate is changing all the time. >> just today from spring to something else. >> as a newscaster i want to be clear. the 2012 platform on the issues. it says --
let me hand them this compliment, richard. that statement there is palatable and potentially more accurate than the way rubio sound. >> if you could define and agree on what a phenomenon is. what are they talk tag bout there? why can't they come out and say what most republican businessmen are preparing for. what's interesting is that, rubio comes out with this really pretty well fleshed out position that the whole thing is bogus. and the scientists are completely wrong. then, he is walked back. walked back.
uses language that to a person sound reasonable. talking mitigation. mitigation means something precise. means actually human beings are -- are putting carbon dioxide into the air. that's leading to green house gasses which can, and do change the environment. that is a position that lead you to policy positions. leads you to legislation. and he cannot make that connection. i don't know which marco rubio is going to show up. i suspect like rand paul he will tailor his position whatever the spin doctors said he has got to do or what he thinks his audience wants to hear. >> certainly this is happening. rubio fell out of favor with the tea party when he moderated on immigration. then ted cruz became the person that they put the crown on. said you are now the face of the tea party. rand paul has been fighting writ ted cruz, back and forth. a year.
and be the conservative to a chris christie or jeb bush. i do think the bottom of this, primary voters want this extreme positions. the problem is the national electorate does not. they have proven in two cycles in a row they do not want that. the republicans have not changed the positions. it is going to be a problem for them until they take a look in the mirror and say, do we want women to volt for us? do we want people of color to volt for us? requesting their ability to vote is not then going to attract black voters. >> and to richard's point to be able to cogently explain what they're doing and why an not change it before every audience as wife we can't keep track. thank you both. >> thank you so much. >> coming up. three senators are blocking money for bulletproof for vests for cops on the street. breaking news in conservative states about marriage equality. dustin max black will join me. capital to make it happen?
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the fight over protection our first responders. every day police officers in the country face real life danger while on the job in the form of a criminal with a gun. >> we are learning more about the brentwood police officer shot and killed before that huge house explosion. >> we know the fallen officer is a part time officer with two teenage daughters. he was killed responding to a fight at the home. off awe the community is hurting from the officer's murder, one year ago. >> i have never seen a community
respond the way that this community has responded. the type saw part that you continue to give. >> it is not how the officers died that made them heroes. it is how they lived. >> communities around the country are holding memorials in recognition of their fallen officers as part of national police week. but on capitol hill, republicans concerns over spending have stalled a program that has in the past, supplied more than one million bulletproof vests to police departments across the nation. vests can cost between $800 and $1,000. strain the budgets of local pds why some forego them. since 1999, congress voted to reauthorize the bulletproof vest partnership grant. in 2012. senator coburn, blocked the money for the program. he is using procedural tactics and says it has not been offset with other cuts. a former police officer and profess ore of law.
and sam stein, msnbc political analyst, senior editor the huffington post. welcome to you both. >> sue jean. -- eugene, this is important. why do some votes work and why do some pds not have them. >> of equipment that saved the lives of 3,000 police officers in the country. some departments have them. vast majority do. some do not. it is unthinkable in the day and age, with homeland security issues. events in boston that any single police officer in the country would be without a vest. there is a legitimate argument how far the federal government should be involved. after events of boston that should underscore, securing the homeland against terrorism is a national interest. every police officer should have access to a bulletproof vest. >> sam, i know you talked to some staffers on the hill today about this. let me play senator coburn explaining his opposition. take a listen.
>> the fact its that every individual in the country today, owes $50,000 just on the debt. this isn't about vests, continuing to do the same thing that got our country in trouble. this is $120 million authorization with no offset. no cutting of spending anywhere else. if it is a priority we ought to cut spending some where else. sam, what can you tell us? >> well i talk to coburn's staff. they stand by the statement, obviously. this is pretty much tom coburn's modus operandi. the entire political party is with tom coburn. used to be bipartisan measure. today there are no republicans supporting senator patrick leahy in getting the $120 million opposition. because there is this thirst for austerity in the country if you are going to spend the money you have to offset. tom coburn will not let this thing go through, unanimous
consent you. are going to have something around a week if you really want this to go through of floor time. even then it is not clear. if they've will get the volts clear to filibuster. >> you put your finger on the politics, sam. the very extreme thing has become the mainstream thing for the republican party. this used to be bipartisan. great. didn't used to make news. fine when cops were getting their vest. look at the hearing today. some of the testimony was remarkable. you had officers talking about vests that saved their lives. senator leahy, spoke about it as well. experience with constituents on this. take a his in to that and get your response. >> a very proud moment, walking down the street in denver, a few years ago. uniformed police officer walked up and send are you senator leahy of vermont? i said, yes i am. he snapped his chest, you could
hear the thump-thunk of the vest. he said thank you. and walked off. i says, you know, days when i -- say, why are we pounding our heads against the wall to get things done. that day made it worthwhile. >> isn't that the reason that you want every officer to be able to have that security and worry about the offsets wherever else. >> $4 trillion budget. this is $100 million item. a lobbyist talking how easily he navigates through the system to get his people overlooked. it should not be a partisan issue. and i don't believe, in the budget, coast to coast, protect every police officer in the midst of terrorist threats and crime. should be done, done this week, appropriately. be national police week. >> so, sam, looking forward
then, if -- if austerity politics or tea party budget cutting politics are so strong. that even an issue like this can't -- budge them -- then ills -- then is it hopeless? >> i wouldn't go that far. the last reauthorization was 2012. there is renewed attention. this week with national police week. from what i understand, there are plans to actually force a vote on the unanimous consent measure. which would, essentially force tom coburn or some one else to object publicly. that's -- the idea is basically to put shame on the members. big problem here, procedural, not that it will take forever. our attention span sort of waned quickly. it is easier to focus media attention and anger at an issue being blocked than after it has been blocked. that's the problem in the reauthorization. two years. very little activity on it. people don't recognize what is actually happening. >> yeah, well put. sam stein. appreciate your reporting from washington. eugene o'donnell. thank you for joining us.
>> thank you. >> thank you, ari. >> coming up. we are going to tell you how lawrence o'donnell is doing. stay with us. ameriprise asked people a simple question: in retirement, will you outlive your money? uhhh. no, that can't happen. that's the thing, you don't know how long it has to last. everyone has retirement questions. so ameriprise created the exclusive.. confident retirement approach. now you and your ameripise advisor can get the real answers you need. well, knowing gives you confidence. start building your confident retirement today. i missed you, too.ou. hi buddy.
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now a special update. many of you have asked us about lawrence's recovery from recent injuries. any one know how lawrence is doing or when he might be coming back? well, everyone, he is feeling great. he is recovering on schedule. and he will be back soon. >> hey, hey, hey, ari, who told you that? >> lawrence, is that you? >> yeah, yeah, it's me. listen, i was just watching the show. i heard your update about me. >> yes. and you are doing great, right? >> yes. i am. >> and recovery, how is recovery going, pretty well? >> yeah. it's okay. >> okay. i have heard. i have heard since i have you here on the phone you are also doing great at physical therapy? >> well, you know, i wouldn't say great. i am getting pretty good on crutches. one thing i want everybody to know. the karl rove rumor that i have had brain damage that is come fleetly untrue oh kay. make sure that goes away. that's -- just not true. but, ari, what is this bit about
me come offing back soon? who says i'm coming back soon? >> well, i have been advised of that. i assume if everything is going well with you then you would be back soon, lawrence? >> why? you have something you want to do you, have vacation plans? >> not yet, no. >> good. good. >> okay. well since you are here, can you tell us, tell me when are you coming back? >> yeah, let's beep serious. it's not tell us. tell you. when you want to know. when i am coming back. all right. so, i will actually have more info on that for you, ari, so you can plan your life, i will have more info on that next week after i meet with my surgeon. >> that would be great. then you know i could make some, i could make vacation plans. >> of course, because this, this of course is really all about you. never mind that i was the one who was in the car crash. totally innocent victim in the back seat of a taxicab. broke my hip. banged up my legs. had to go through surgery, for the first time in my life, ari,
first time ever. never mind all that, because this is about ari's desire to get to go on vacation. that's what this is about. >> clearly. >> if you want to go rent the cabin in the woods where you do hen reap david thoreau thing, you can do that in june. plan on june. >> we have news. june. you won't be back until june, lawrence. >> don't make until june sound like a long time. that's right around the corner. and in the meantime, i will continue to call in, whenever i feel like it. i will feel like it more and more. because i am getting more energy. i might even skype my way into a segment for you there, ari. remember, i have access to the control room. anytime when you least expect it, like, you know right now, i could end up being your next guest. >> i think that is more than fair. that's great. and you jump in whenever you want, lawrence. >> all right, you know now that you have me warmed up for this. can i do the tease for what's
coming up in the show snow. >> sure. go ahead. >> this is so great to get back in the saddle this way. okay. but i don't actually know what is coming up in the show. so i will just say -- stay with us for more of "the last word" with the hardest working man in cable news ari. ♪ at any minute... ...you could be a victim of fraud. most people don't even know it. fraud could mean lower credit scores, higher mortgage rates... ...and not getting the home you really want. it's a problem waiting to happen. check your credit score, check your credit report, at experian.com. america's number one provider of online credit reports and scores. don't take chances. go to experian.com.
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9:00 a.m. local time. same-sex couples will be able to get married in idaho. idaho. a state where mitt romney won by 65%. which hasn't voted for a democratic presidential candidate since 1964. for lbj. yesterday, a judge struck down the state's ban on same-sex marriage. 12th decision since the supreme court invalidated defense of marriage act a year age same-sex marriage is legal in the state. the ruling was made by a lower court. and could be peeled. in her ruling, the judge wrote, idaho's marriage laws withhold a profound and personal choice, plaintiffs suffer these injuries not because they are unqualified to marry, start a family or grow old together, but because of who they are and whom they love. joining me now is oscar screenwriter, and activist, dustin lance. it is legal.
pending appeal. in one of the most conservative states in the nation. your thoughts on this news tonight. >> well, i think it continues a pattern that we have seen in other conservative states like utah, like texas. i believe that what is happening is, marriage spreads across the country, in fact as decisions are happening even in conservative states, people are seeing no one is hurt. the sky is not falling. that no damage is happening. in fact their communities are starting to benefit because gay and lesbian people and their families are protected. they're respected. and it is forming more stable family units within the communities. and you know there is really nothing to be afraid of. there is no backlash to this. good news for everyone. i think we have established, even in the proposition 8 case in california, that there is a conservative case to be made for marriage equality. >> you mention a conservative case. there is also a case of -- what in the law they some times call localism or the idea that, there is -- pride and there is purpose
to states figuring this out through their own judicial process or political process. one of the plaintiff's was talking saying they're proud of their state. take a listen. >> the first person i called was my mom. and she said, i am so proud of you, abby. and -- i don't think people understand what that means to native idahoans who love this state and want to be in this state. we are idahoans. we were heard and it feels amazing. >> talk to us about that kind of pride. >> almost brings a tear to my eye. honestly. i grew up in texas. my family is from utah. there are so many gay and lesbian people across the country who do not want to have to leave their hometowns and to leave their families and leave the people they love just to be equal treated equally under the law. and so awful a sudden to understand that you can keep your job, hopefully, keep your home, and maybe in some of the
states get married and stay with your family and stay in the town you love. incredibly moving and very american. we should be able to have our fundamental rights in all 50 states in the country. i hope the day is coming soon. >> yeah, you talk about lance, that day is coming. "the washington post" is estimating in a report we are on the brink of a majority uh of gay americans being able to marry. i have the graph on the screen. under 5 million gay americans live in states in which they're not allowed to marry. 4.5 million live in states where they can marry. a million or so in states that are in kind of a limbo with the bans overturned. and you've think about that. you think about what it means to be out and means to be seen and means to, what it means to be visible. a big part of this. there are contrasts and comparisons in the civil rights struggle in the racial rights context. one difference, tell us about the role of so many people's relationships and lives being to some degree suppressed not allowed to be out there for everyone to realize, oh, there are people all over the place
who are, living their lives. >> there was a, so much good news in that report from "the washington post." of course, i was elated to see we are getting to a majority of gay and lesbian people being able to marry. when you look at the map. it shows you the amount of the percentage of people who are declare themselves as openly gay or lesbian that the census, that the map is based on. you can almost lay the map, protection of housing over it. in the areas where you can still be fired for being gay, lesbian. still be fired, lose your home for being lgbt person. lays over it almost perfectly. to see that people will not declare they're gay and lesbian in the areas where they could lose their job and lose their home and the danger to that isn't just losing your job or home. it means these people are having to lie on census. having to lie at work. not able to take their partner with them. their children are having to cover up who they are at school. it brings a lot of shame.
and frankly without being able to till you a personal stories in these areas particularly in the south, where there are no protections, it means, it means that we cannot move the dialogue. we can't dispel the myths and lies and stereotypes that hold us back and to move the conversation forward. we are not done after marriage. >> dustin lanes black, you get the last word on this issue with us tonight. thank you for joining us. >> thank you very much. >> coming up. why the military was using zombies to plan for the future national defense. are you ready grandma? just a second, sweetie.
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and allied national interest given the rapidity of which zombie outbreaks spread. unilateral force may be roared to negate the zombie threat. i'm reading to you from an unclassified u.s. military report that was obtained recently by foreign policy magazine. con plan 8888, is actually a really zombie survival plan. don't go looking for things in your house to destroy zombie brains yet. the plan designed as a training tool for military planners in nebraska five years ago to protect americans in the events of attacks of any kind of joining me now the man who discover this plan, the senior writer for foreign policy magazine, good evening. >> give to you. >> i took a look at this plan to day. definitely interesting. it definitely gives you a window into this kind of military training in general. what did you make of it? >> so, i covered the military for a long time. usually the nonzombie reporting
that i have done over the years has shown me that the military plans for almost anything possible that could happen. and in this case they're ready for -- a missile launch from russia or anything. in this case, they decided that -- that they could really -- spend some time using zombies as a muse to determine what they should think about if, if a true, adversary came into the u.s. and that they, they hadn't prepared for it before. >> right. when you look at the report. they talk about a range of zombies. mention, chicken zombies are a real thing. some chickens when they have their head cut off can come back up out of the ground. weird. i didn't know that. they talk alien zombies. they give you a window into sort of the deterrents and counter attack mode that the plans operate on. and yet when you think about an alien zombie or what we would do in that event however unlikely of alien invasion something that president clinton has talked about. take a listen to this.
>> in the last two years, more than 20 planets have been identified outside of our solar system that seem to be far enough away from their suns and dense enough that they might be able to support some form of life. so, it makes it increasingly less likely that we are alone. >> you are trying to give me a hint there are aliens? >> no. i am trying to tell you i don't know. >> that is amusing. there. he is musing on that. does the, does the u.s. and military here have these kind of plans for that kind of big enchilada? >> you know, i think that they're planning will always be kind of just off to the right of what's realistic. this is, you know, kind of a ridiculous example of the kind of planning they do. you never know. the point that we kind of took from this was that -- although they use zombies and all of the chicken zombies and evil magic zombies as a way to kind of think about different kinds of adversaries.
like they actually do have this, this planning document on the shelf in case things really went south. >> yeah. in your article you mention how centers for disease control used zombies in trainings. zombie survival guide was a big "the new york times" best-selling book. why are we so afraid and fascinated here on this topic? >> it is interesting. because they actually -- they talk in the -- kind of disclaimer section of this, of this document, about why they picked nom bees. zombies resonate with viewers, americans, and in the military. clearly a lot of people here watching the sci-fi channel as they prepare this document. but they knew that if they used something that would be interesting, they could crowd source this, this, particular plan. >> right. >> so within the military like actually get other people to, contribute to it, or think about it or reassess the -- this threat.
>> all right. gordon. the clintons are in the ring. let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. let's start with the best fight in the country, the clintons versus karl rove. rove started this battle royale over hillary's health, this brain injury he's mixing it up about. the clintons are hitting back with a combination of punches, the defense of the former secretary of state is 100%, that rove is dealing with some kind of sickness himself, or, according to bill, the republican operative's charges are so inconsistent as to be laughable.